Sri Sri Ravi Shankar: A yogi doesn't mind criticism at all
"If Congress has an untouchable attitude towards spiritual and religious gurus, it is their problem," says spiritual guru Sri Sri Ravi Shankar.
"If Congress has an untouchable attitude towards spiritual and religious gurus, it is their problem," says spiritual guru Sri Sri Ravi Shankar. In an interview with the TOI, Sri Sri talks about Anna Hazare, using fast as a means of protest and on other issues. Excerpts from the interview:
Q) You have been an active participant in the India Against Corruption campaign led by Anna Hazare. However once a spiritual master enters the political arena, he will be criticised like any other politician. Are you prepared for this? Will not your devotees get dvesh bhav for your critics?
A) A yogi doesn't mind criticism at all. All the brahmagyanis in the past have been criticized including Lord Krishna. A saadhak should not get into dwesha bhaav. At most, knowing that criticism is out of ignorance, he can have a good laugh about it.
Q) The Congress sees all sages as a group which is politically saffron (close to BJP/RSS). Aren't you reinforcing this impression by praising Nitin Gadkari and asking for the BJP's help over Jan Lokpal? Shouldn't the distinction between spiritual saffron and political saffron be maintained?
A) If Congress has an untouchable attitude towards spiritual and religious gurus, it is their problem. It is wrong to think that, to please the minorities, you have to keep away from spiritual sages and gurus.
My nature is to praise people for the good work they have done, irrespective of their political affiliations. Earlier in the month of June, I released the book of KPCC President, R.V.Deshpande, who also happens to be an Art of Living devotee. And now, Nitin Gadkari requested me to release his work. I did acknowledge the good work he had done in Vidarbha region. Same with other Congress ministers Dr. Karan Singh, Patangrao Kadam, Veerappa Moily, Satej Patil, etc. Last year, I also appreciated and complimented Veerappa Moily at the Times Foundation function when he received the Moorti Devi award. Similarly many other senior Congress people have come in touch with the Art of Living. If and when they have done some good social work we have always acknowledged them. Politics and the party affiliation is only one aspect. A human being is much more than politics and we need to recognize that.
Q) Rama is quoted in the Yoga Vasistha as saying that "All countries of the world are territories of evil" - presumably including his father's kingdom, Ayodhya. What would you say?
A) That was correct. At that time, Rama was a sadhak and a prince. Normally a prince is attached to his people and his country. Rama had to come out of that limited identity and negation was necessary. We must remember he was a student and a sadhak, when he said those words. These same words would never come out of Vasishtha who was a brahmagyani. Brahmagyan transcends the duality of good and evil. It assimilates the boundaries and finds that boundaries are no way a challenge to the Boundless.
To experience niraakaar, a sadhak will negate the saakaar. The realization happens that the saakaar is as much a part of the niraakaar.
Q) Sages do not usually involve themselves in worldly matters. This is evident even from recent masters like Sri Ramakrishna and Sri Ramana Maharshi. Would you say they are wrong?
A) Ramakrishna prepared a host of sanyasis including Vivekananda to carry out his earthly mission, while Ramana Maharishi has indirectly inspired many to walk an honest and truthful path in the political arena and to live a life of sacrifice and service for the country.
Q) You did not speak out either during the Mandal agitation or the Ram Janambhoomi controversy - though these were also issues that had social, political and ethical dimensions. Why?
A) I have always spoken about all these issues whenever there has been a conflict and violence. With Ram Janma Bhumi issue, I have several times initiated dialogue between both the communities and urged them to come to a consensus and settle the issue amicably.
I have at all times maintained that reservations should be on economic criteria, and not on the basis of caste or religion.
Q) Is fasting a spiritual practice of self-cleansing and prayer, or should it be used for political purposes? Do you think Anna Hazare did the right thing by going on a fast against corruption, seen in some quarters as a form of political blackmail?
A) Personally, I feel fasting is for cleansing and for prayer. It was Mahatma Gandhi who started this for political reasons. If there are spiritual and religious overtones to bring transformation in social, political and economic arenas, there is nothing wrong. The whole of politics is just a numbers game, sometimes attained through muscle and money power.
A non-violent way of prayer and protest cannot be termed as blackmailing, especially when it is directed against unprecedented levels of corruption.
Q) You have exalted the role of a Rajguru who's active in politics. But isn't the status of a Rajguru lower than that of a Brahmgyani?
A) Ideally, a rajguru should be a brahmagyani like Vasishtha, Chanakya or Vidyaranya. Given the lack of such availability, a lesser wise person can manage.
Q) You are fitter than BJP president Nitin Gadkari, younger than LK Advani, can cite from the Koran, Bible, Jain & Buddhist teachings during an election rally. You can appeal to minorities & bridge any gap with Hindus, as also create harmony between India, Pakistan & China. Can we propose you as an ideal PM candidate? If yes, can we propose you for BJP leadership?
A) No, not at all. Your imagination seems to be running wild! A doctor prescribes the medicine, but doesn't eat it himself! If he starts eating his own medicine, at that moment, he cannot be a doctor, you have to call him a patient.
Q) You teach in the ashram that devotees are not citizens belonging to a city or country. How can you then entertain the duties of a citizen?
A) This statement is erroneous. We never do that.
We say that your first identity is that you are part of the universal spirit (Brahman).
As the ancient system goes, first initiation of the student is called brahmopadesha- the highest knowledge is given first, then, one is initiated into the Gayatri mantra. Indicating that, you should know that your first and foremost identity is that you are the Brahman.
Second, that you are a Human Being. Third, that you are male or female. Fourth, that you belong to a particular country. Fifth, that you are from a particular religion. You have a duty to perform at all these levels, and in no way do these identities conflict with each other. Just like our five koshas. Annamaya kosha is our first body, the environment. The Pranamaya Kosha is that of the physical, the prana; the manomaya kosha is the thoughts; the vignanmaya kosha is the intuitive subtle body (sukshma shareer) and the anandmaya kosha is bliss. The five koshas don't conflict with each other, but have their own dimension.
Q) You have been an active participant in the India Against Corruption campaign led by Anna Hazare. However once a spiritual master enters the political arena, he will be criticised like any other politician. Are you prepared for this? Will not your devotees get dvesh bhav for your critics?
A) A yogi doesn't mind criticism at all. All the brahmagyanis in the past have been criticized including Lord Krishna. A saadhak should not get into dwesha bhaav. At most, knowing that criticism is out of ignorance, he can have a good laugh about it.
Q) The Congress sees all sages as a group which is politically saffron (close to BJP/RSS). Aren't you reinforcing this impression by praising Nitin Gadkari and asking for the BJP's help over Jan Lokpal? Shouldn't the distinction between spiritual saffron and political saffron be maintained?
A) If Congress has an untouchable attitude towards spiritual and religious gurus, it is their problem. It is wrong to think that, to please the minorities, you have to keep away from spiritual sages and gurus.
My nature is to praise people for the good work they have done, irrespective of their political affiliations. Earlier in the month of June, I released the book of KPCC President, R.V.Deshpande, who also happens to be an Art of Living devotee. And now, Nitin Gadkari requested me to release his work. I did acknowledge the good work he had done in Vidarbha region. Same with other Congress ministers Dr. Karan Singh, Patangrao Kadam, Veerappa Moily, Satej Patil, etc. Last year, I also appreciated and complimented Veerappa Moily at the Times Foundation function when he received the Moorti Devi award. Similarly many other senior Congress people have come in touch with the Art of Living. If and when they have done some good social work we have always acknowledged them. Politics and the party affiliation is only one aspect. A human being is much more than politics and we need to recognize that.
Q) Rama is quoted in the Yoga Vasistha as saying that "All countries of the world are territories of evil" - presumably including his father's kingdom, Ayodhya. What would you say?
A) That was correct. At that time, Rama was a sadhak and a prince. Normally a prince is attached to his people and his country. Rama had to come out of that limited identity and negation was necessary. We must remember he was a student and a sadhak, when he said those words. These same words would never come out of Vasishtha who was a brahmagyani. Brahmagyan transcends the duality of good and evil. It assimilates the boundaries and finds that boundaries are no way a challenge to the Boundless.
To experience niraakaar, a sadhak will negate the saakaar. The realization happens that the saakaar is as much a part of the niraakaar.
Q) Sages do not usually involve themselves in worldly matters. This is evident even from recent masters like Sri Ramakrishna and Sri Ramana Maharshi. Would you say they are wrong?
A) Ramakrishna prepared a host of sanyasis including Vivekananda to carry out his earthly mission, while Ramana Maharishi has indirectly inspired many to walk an honest and truthful path in the political arena and to live a life of sacrifice and service for the country.
Q) You did not speak out either during the Mandal agitation or the Ram Janambhoomi controversy - though these were also issues that had social, political and ethical dimensions. Why?
A) I have always spoken about all these issues whenever there has been a conflict and violence. With Ram Janma Bhumi issue, I have several times initiated dialogue between both the communities and urged them to come to a consensus and settle the issue amicably.
I have at all times maintained that reservations should be on economic criteria, and not on the basis of caste or religion.
Q) Is fasting a spiritual practice of self-cleansing and prayer, or should it be used for political purposes? Do you think Anna Hazare did the right thing by going on a fast against corruption, seen in some quarters as a form of political blackmail?
A) Personally, I feel fasting is for cleansing and for prayer. It was Mahatma Gandhi who started this for political reasons. If there are spiritual and religious overtones to bring transformation in social, political and economic arenas, there is nothing wrong. The whole of politics is just a numbers game, sometimes attained through muscle and money power.
A non-violent way of prayer and protest cannot be termed as blackmailing, especially when it is directed against unprecedented levels of corruption.
Q) You have exalted the role of a Rajguru who's active in politics. But isn't the status of a Rajguru lower than that of a Brahmgyani?
A) Ideally, a rajguru should be a brahmagyani like Vasishtha, Chanakya or Vidyaranya. Given the lack of such availability, a lesser wise person can manage.
Q) You are fitter than BJP president Nitin Gadkari, younger than LK Advani, can cite from the Koran, Bible, Jain & Buddhist teachings during an election rally. You can appeal to minorities & bridge any gap with Hindus, as also create harmony between India, Pakistan & China. Can we propose you as an ideal PM candidate? If yes, can we propose you for BJP leadership?
A) No, not at all. Your imagination seems to be running wild! A doctor prescribes the medicine, but doesn't eat it himself! If he starts eating his own medicine, at that moment, he cannot be a doctor, you have to call him a patient.
Q) You teach in the ashram that devotees are not citizens belonging to a city or country. How can you then entertain the duties of a citizen?
A) This statement is erroneous. We never do that.
We say that your first identity is that you are part of the universal spirit (Brahman).
As the ancient system goes, first initiation of the student is called brahmopadesha- the highest knowledge is given first, then, one is initiated into the Gayatri mantra. Indicating that, you should know that your first and foremost identity is that you are the Brahman.
Second, that you are a Human Being. Third, that you are male or female. Fourth, that you belong to a particular country. Fifth, that you are from a particular religion. You have a duty to perform at all these levels, and in no way do these identities conflict with each other. Just like our five koshas. Annamaya kosha is our first body, the environment. The Pranamaya Kosha is that of the physical, the prana; the manomaya kosha is the thoughts; the vignanmaya kosha is the intuitive subtle body (sukshma shareer) and the anandmaya kosha is bliss. The five koshas don't conflict with each other, but have their own dimension.
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